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I'd like to propose something about the timeline and its sources
I believe there isn’t a consensus on what a gay anthem actually is; some of the sources seem to say that it is a song with a deep meaning that LGBT people can relate to and feel empowered by; some others just settle for dance songs that are or were popular at gay clubs.
We all can find some random blog that claims that some song by our favorite diva is a gay anthem, or even a trustworthy source that says so. But in the end we are not dealing with facts, we are dealing with opinions; so even if the New York Times, or AfterElton, or some other respectable publication calls a certain song an anthem, it’s just the personal opinion of the writer.
This is why I think that in this case it would be good, if not necessary, if we add new songs to the list only after finding two or three reliable sources, from different authors and publications, that clearly state they are gay anthems. Then we won’t be relying on the opinion of just one person; if several authors from different publications all agree in that this or that song is a gay anthem, then it must be true.
It would be even better if we can find news items about groups of LGBT people and supporters recurring to these songs for comfort or empowerment; like these ones:
Because then we’ll be backing up the article with facts, not just opinions. What do you think?
Unnecessary Double Quotes in Table
Does anyone oppose removing the quotation marks in the song column of the table? If we do, we can make that column properly sortable (e.g. not counting any leading "the" and "a" words in the song titles. I've also noticed that a few entries are missing one or both of the quotations, so I think it's easier to simply not include them. Thrakkx (talk) 17:44, 12 March 2021 (UTC)
- Thrakkx, I see you already made this change, but if keeping the quote marks is preferable for some titles, the sort template will help the specific problem around sorting. — HTGS (talk) 21:21, 14 May 2021 (UTC)
Semi-protected edit request on 9 April 2021
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Semi-protected edit request on 23 April 2021 on the article for "gay anthems"
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I feel that the list of lgbt anthems is missing a few notable songs and that the following should be considered for addition though perhaps further discussion with members of the lgbt community is necessary
"Candy Says"-The Velvet Underground (1969): is written as an ode to late transgender model, activist and model Candy Darling, the same featured in Lou Reeds later solo hit "Walk on the Wild Side" sources: Lou Reed: A Life by Anthony DeCurtis, https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Candy_Darling#CITEREFDeCurtis2017
"Lady Stardust"-David Bowie (1972): Rumored to have been written about T.Rex vocalist Marc Bolan, thus making its romantic connotations queer in nature it was also rumored Bowie, a bisexual had a crush on Bolan, Bolan himself himself was also bisexual Sources: https://www.bowiebible.com/songs/lady-stardust/ https://www.cjr.org/criticism/bowie.php https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Marc_Bolan#:~:text=When%20asked%20about%20his%20sexuality,said%20that%20he%20was%20bisexual.
"Gloria: In Excelsis Dio-Patti Smith (1974): a cover but with the notable introductory line "Jesus died for somebody's sins but not mine, a melting pot of thrives, wild card up my sleeve, a thick heart of stone, my sins my own, they belong to me" while the original version (gloria by them) is song by a man, the recontextualization of a woman singing the song implies repressed lesbian sexuality, in edition patti smith is and has been openly bisexual dispite a religious upbringing Sources: https://www.allmusic.com/song/gloria-mt0010867829 https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Patti_Smith
"Modern Love"-David Bowie (1983): this song lyrically critiques the church for not believing in "modern love" a common eupjemism for homosexuality, the song also begins with the line "i know when to go out i know when to stay in" possibly referring to staying in the closet as according to the chorus, he's "never going to fall for modern love" event though it "walks beside him" he's unable to escape it, he'd be willing to let it "walk on by" or let it go if he could, and this guilty desire gets him to the church om time, going to the church terrifies him as it makes him fear damnation Source: https://www.jonkutner.com/modern-love-david-bowie/
"I Want to Break Free"-Queen (1984): Includes a famous video where a newly out of the closet Freddie Mercury crossdresses and sings about "falling in love for the first time" and wanting to break free
"Girls & Boys"-Blur (1994): Lyrics about "Girls who are boys who like boys to be girls, who do boys like they're girls, who do girls like they're boys" This was also a popular song on London gay scene
"Searching for a Former Clearity"-Against Me! (2005): I"n the journal you kept by the side of your bed, you wrote nightly an aspiration of developing as an author, confessing childhood secrets of dressing up in women's clothes, compulsions you never knew the reasons to" songwriter Laura Jane Grace would later transition, retroactively recontextualizing the song
"All Kinds of Kinds"-Miranda Lambert (2011): a rare and significant example of a pro-gender nonconformity song including a verse about a crossdressing man dating a drug addicted pharmacist because as Lambert says "To keep the world spinning it takes all kinds of kinds" Source: https://www.songfacts.com/lyrics/miranda-lambert/all-kinds-of-kinds 18.104.22.168 (talk) 20:58, 23 April 2021 (UTC)
- Not done: please provide reliable sources that support the change you want to be made. -- Asartea Talk | Contribs 16:28, 24 April 2021 (UTC)
How to fix this article
As we all know, this page needs a lot of work. What I suggest going forward is that in picking gay anthems worthy of adding to the article, not only should they be well-sourced, but we should be able to write something about them. Like that Elton John told EW (repeated by the NYTimes article) that Born This Way “will completely get rid of Gloria Gaynor’s ‘I Will Survive’ as the gay anthem." This is still (on its own) an ambiguous designation of anthem-hood, but at least its inclusion on a list can be understood by readers.
To this end, I suggest that we work towards writing something in the notes column of the big list for each song. Articles like the Rolling Stones article are a great place to start because they have a clear list, and an explanation for each song. Whether a song was written by LGBT people (Lil Nas X), for LGBT people ("I'm Coming Out"), just happened to have a theme that caught a following in the community ("I Will Survive"), or even pandered to the community ("I Kissed a Girl") it should be noted down.
Second, and I will be working to change this myself, but we have to ensure the lead follows the body of the article. The lead should not be allowed to have random songs or statements added to it without those additions already backed up in the body. If a novice editor comes along to append their favorite anthem, this is an opportunity to move their edit and tell them of this best practice.
Finally, and on a similar note, it might just be that songs that are "historically significant" should should at least be blue-linked already; that is, they should be notable in their own right before being added to the list. The list, as it is, might be better split into a list article—something along the lines of "Songs that have been called gay anthems"—and we can have a much more directed and clear section on this article, writing about the history of gay anthems. — HTGS (talk) 00:43, 29 May 2021 (UTC)